Hi,
I thought I'd take a look at why people leave Sydney, Australia to go back home, be that to the UK, South Africa or anywhere.
I have heard of families leaving after 2 weeks!!! - droves leave within 6 months!
Well most people arrive here bushy tailed, bright eyes, filled with adventure and faith. We believe this will be a new beginning in all things; financial, friends, work, weather, crime and so on.
Some people come because they are bored or have some awkward/unbearable situation they want to escape. Whatever the reasons, they are compelling enough to make people spend years getting visa's and spend 10's of thousands of Pounds getting to Australia.
So why go back! Why do they leave Australia?
I have spent a lot of time in forums and have immigrated THREE times in the last 10 years. Believe me, I know a lot about this.
Reason no 1 - Loneliness.
You're on your own!, no friends, no family. No-one to talk to. This applies to wives, husbands and children equally- especially teenagers and especially stay-at-home mums (Even stay at home dads as one might be unemployed).
I mean, "how the hell are they gonna meet people?" most people are not outgoing and friend sprouters.
Reason no 2 - post arrival depression
Well you're on a high when you arrive right? This soon wears off and life becomes normal, it becomes tedious again, nothings new and well shit life sucks (lemme go home). some people get depressed at this point. Some get REALLY depressed. I have heard of either the husband or the wife deciding "screw this" and heading home. So once the euphoria wears off you find yours possibly in a worse life situation then before.
Reason no 3. - money- or lack thereof.
Coming to Sydney, Australia was the biggest shock of my life in this area. Without a deposit, there is no way in hell a family will buy a decent home. I say decent as who wants to migrate to a better country and then live on an estate right?
Food is as expensive as inner London. in fact to me, the restaurants are more expensive. And you don't get the London wage?
Thousands of people come here and end up being financially worse off by (I'd say) 40% financially.
Reason 4 - un-employment.
Many people come over on their spouses visa and find that they cant find work. When on partner is working i.e. nurses or hairdressers and the other isn't this can lead down the slippery path to returning.
Reason 5 - Teenagers don't fit in.
Ok your year 10 or 11, you have loads of friends your cool. Now, you have none. kids become recluses, clinging to the net. Teens are self-conscious, they cannot make friends!! (well a large section of them) Lets face it most kids are normal - i.e. not hugely handsome, beautiful, sporty or intelligent. And lets face it again - its those type of kids that can get into the in-crowd quickly...right? Most are just average kids trying to get by the remarks, bullying, existing cliques and so on.
Reason 6. - school year mismatch
UK year 11's have finished school- here they haven't. Enter country late in year and you kids just tread water for months, either trying to catch up, or just giving up til next years. NOT GOOD on so many levels - self esteem, exercise, socializing - all downhill.
UK year 11's have finished school- here they haven't. Enter country late in year and you kids just tread water for months, either trying to catch up, or just giving up til next years. NOT GOOD on so many levels - self esteem, exercise, socializing - all downhill.
I would really like your comments.
Have you left Australia? Have you left Sydney? Are you thinking of leaving Australia?
Thanks and 'til next time!
B good!!
How I got my visa, Life, Lumps and spirit, Hate your new country? Your not alone! A good Furniture Rental company in Sydney,Why do immigrants leave Australia?, Sydney - Scotland island - hidden gem, Malls in Sydney, Living in St Ives, Arriving in Sydney, Driving through Sydney - first day, How expensive is Sydney
These things may apply to anyone who emigrate - not only to Australia but any country. But having said that, it also does not happen to many people. I felt all this when I lived in the UK but have felt nothing of this since Ive been to Australia.
ReplyDeleteIve read somewhere that about 2% (or shall i say only 2%) South Africans move back to South Africa from Australia.
Yeah any immigration of course. Just relating my experience and what I have seen and discussed on many forums.
ReplyDeletenot sure about the 2% though, one of the biggest problems when people leave - Even Uk people who (from my point of view) prefer their cold, dark country and smallish houses because that is purely where "home" is.
Hi Byron,
ReplyDeleteWe are Saffers living in the UK (for 3 years) and have applied for a visa to us. My kids are still small aged 8 and 3. I for one am fed up with the cold and dark and the ugly brown houses, but its easy to make friends here and my daughters free state school is amazing. What did you find most challenging moving from the UK?
The high cost of living. Budget all the time. no cash to do any trips or sight seeing.
DeleteSorry I meant a visa to Oz!!! We are deciding between moving back to SA or going to Australia.
ReplyDeletemight I know what you decided on the end?
DeleteHi
ReplyDeleteMe and my wife and kids have immigrated to Australia a year ago, I have worked in my profession as a freelancer in Sydney cbd for 3 months (thankfully by the grace of the Lord I am still doing work for South Africa), were I constantly had verbal accusations about being an South African racist etc. And to be honest they didn't know me from a bar of soap especially my reasons for coming to Australia.
I can tell you a few things about Australians
My sun was used to "tackle kids" playing rugby is South Africa, he was punished (sitting in the corner for an hour, he's only 5) for being a bully his 2nd day at school, and he was pushed
We are Afrikaans speaking and I was told to speak English at home - to help my sun (that wasn't easy for me)
My wife had to do a coarse to teach, Oo and the best part - we had to redo our car licenses in OZ, and I failed!!!! And I legally drove my car for more than 10 years in SA!
I have found that our standard of living has dropped hectically even with center links support and the "free medical" all for "being save"
If you are looking to be bored, broke, sweat, kill bugs, get sunburnt, live on skype, live on the net, sound like a crow when you talk or just being a tenant for the rest of your life then this is the place for you - On your own, on your own little island then this is it mate
I understand that South Africa does have crime - I have been there believe me.
But I do know one thing that my kids will have support from their family
We are going back home, because that is home
And this is NOT.....
Australia is an absolutely boring country. People are narrow minded and extremely off-speed. I make friends only with non-Australians as they can communicate and support in difficult situations.I have lived in Australia for 5 years and still feel isolated, though always was very communicative before coming to Australia.
DeleteLeave Australia! You won't regret it. After 7 years of my life going to waste, I am starting to enjoy life again. The future looks bright! Oh yeah!!! : D
DeleteClaudine, challanging, i think for us it is making new friends, the high house rentals and the high expense of everything in Sydney. I think if you have a large chunk of cash for a house or if your kids are young it will be fine.
ReplyDeleteIt takes a long time for a place to be called home. We stayed in the UK and that where my kids grew up - from 8 - 16 years and they consider that home now... All their friends are there and they dont really remember South Africa like my wife and I do. Hopefully both of you work as this helps tremendously.. good luck on you decisions.
Hi anonymous, sorry to hear about your problems in Australia, I do believe as a proper Afrikaaner family you will experience even greater isolation than someone who speaks English natively. I hope you find everything you are looking for in South Africa and to hell with the issues there :)
ReplyDeletehey I migrated to OZ 4 years ago and I'm so sick of it. I came from south america and the difference between people there and Oz people is just too much...
ReplyDeleteoz is too expensive, too hard to make friends, boring, individualist, superficial people, too hard to get a good professional job because of the "LOCAL EXPERIENCE", which if you don't have, you are fucked...
I suggest you not to coming here, I'm leaving as soon as I can...
sorry to hear its not worked out. A lot of people go home. We have been in three countries now and its never easy to make friends. Luckily I have a good profession where my my skills are in demand. We came here from the UK where we were for five year. Now that feels like home. After 8 months in Australia its a bit boring as the humdrum has set in (work, sleep, work) and we feel like perfect strangers. I agree Sydney feels like the most expensive city ever (unless you have a pile of cash to bring)
ReplyDeleteHey anonymous, any chance of you making a write up of your experiences in australia. Anything you can think of, e.g. price, living, work, race problems. It would be good to hear all your inside info. I might make it a blog post with you permission?
ReplyDeleteAnyone else?
Thanks
Byron
Hi there,
ReplyDeleteI've got a question to You Byron, because I haven't noticed anywhere in Your blog the information about the countries You've lived before. I know that this is a personal question, but by curiosity I would like to know why have You decided to emigrate, again and again and why did You choose Australia for that matter. I myself am considering leave Poland, but still haven't decided which country to emigrate (the UK, Australia, NZ perhaps?). Waiting for an info from You,
All the best and only sunshine days I wish to You,
Cherio!
Hi, we left South africa Originally to go the USA as we felt it had a lot of racism (as we are a mixed couple). Also we felt we had a better future in country with less internal problems etc. We came back from the USA as we were taken over on a visa which only allowed us to work at one company for three years and the salary was quite low - so we struggled and on top of that we missed home very much. it was the first time we left South Africa and it was the hardest. When we got back to South Africa we were there for three years and the old problems cropped up. The south African economy was crashing a bit due to various factors. The interest rates went up to about 19% at one stage and I watched the price of things in the shops double in about 2 Months. - My mortgage more than doubled in about 3 4 months. This and various other factors made us look to find a better future elsewhere. The only place I could go was the UK. We spent 5 years there and it was a shock to us as the UK was definitely very strange in many ways. The culture, the cold weather, the lack of warmth and sunlight. We were then able to get a australian visa which came through at about the time of the global credit crunch and as I was a contractor and on a visa which gives no support I had to find work elsewhere. Believe me I tried hard to get work in the UK, but at the time the market was flooded with several thousand out of work computer professionals. It was like a door closed and a door opened in Australia. This is a greatly simplified version but really we could and we did.
ReplyDeletehope this helps a bit?
I think australia has less help for its citizens than the UK on the whole. ATM the UK feels like home. Australia is too expensive for me. If you are both working, willing to live cheap then you will make it in Australia. The UK is in a recession atm, Australia is not. i cant comment on New Zealand apart from the fact I like the the few New Zealanders I have met so far.
I have met people here from Europe who work as drivers etc and they complain bitterly.
Anyway hope that helps?
My wife and I had a big, terrible argument tonight, out of the blue. This involved our children too. I have been suckered to Austr. on a big salary and endless prommises. Once here, I was pushed into a corner, with a salary I could easlily have made and more in South A. I'm working my ass off just to make ends meet. I am here on a skilled 457. When I received my acceptance letter ,the base salary were way off. It didn't bother me because I spoke to the owner of the company in person when I visited Austr for the interview and when I have phoned them concerning this, I was told that it was just a formality. "you idiot you" No worries mate. Well here we are. Yip fucken doo dee daa. I don't want to delve into personalities, but "Australia" teach your kids somne respect, and you can add a backbone to that "ass"well. We will make ends meet and we will get through this. I'm going to ride that horse.
ReplyDeleteI am moving on after spending 20 years in Australia. I am moving to Canada. I am leaving Australia because of:
ReplyDelete1) Stupid living cost here
2) No business opp. here, I am a business owner, and Australia is never a good for business - more taxes, small market, controlled by monopoly companies. I tested my business in North America (web based), after 6 months: 95% are from North America.
3) A culture for people striving for success - I want my kids to grow in society with positve and go-for-your goal altitude. You don't see them here, most people are very lazy, and just happy counting their monthly wages - which is not much compared to rising inflation
4) Lack of culture - I think this is so true once you have kids. You wanna take them somewhere on the weekends, first the cost will kill you, then it's all sub-standard places. Galleries that you will laugh, theme parks are 1/10th of what's in US and charges you twice more..etc.
Basically, I think this place is going backwards - if you look at people leaving permanently from 2007 to 2010. It had doubled from 50,000 in 2007 to 100,000+ in 2008, and it may reach 120,000 in 2009, and likely to hig 140,000 in 2010 (of which - the net migration is actually almost neutral).
People are thinking like myself, I have 3 friends in the same suburb all thinking about leaving, and we actually live in a relatively good suburb in Sydney!
Go and travel around then you will find where your heart truely belongs to. It may not be where you came from, it maybe Australia or it maybe somewhere else.
Don't feel you are stuck in life, I made my decision 2 weeks after I travelled around North America.
Why stuck yourself in Australia for the rest of life.
2 years back I was in australia for 9 months and was in both brisbane and sydney and not thinking to go back any more .. I was lucky working there but as u said I felt extreamly lonley in expensive country..as im not anglo it was very difficult for me to make friends or girl friend ,I could exlude the backpackers from that ( but sure they r not aussie) ..they r open minded and more friendly i even got girl friend from scotland stayed 4 month with me and then left and back to the boring life .
ReplyDeleteAustralia is soooo far from every where ...expensive ..unfriendly..what is good there ? weather ..education(this also expensive) ..those u can get in many other countries
Im also going to leave Australia "permanently" in the near future. I'm of Hellenic/Greek stock & ever since I was born here I felt the Anglo viciousness breathing down my neck wherever I went. The pressures to assimilate here are far, far too great! Its inhumane & genocidal! I dont want to loose my racial identity, full stop. Your identity is your life, if you loose that, you loose your very existence. I know that there'll probably be lower wages elsewhere, but I dont care, I'll work for the crumbs. The fact is there are sometimes things in life which are 'deeply spiritual' & have no money value attached to them.
ReplyDeleteMy "Ellinismos" is priceless to me. It's deeply spiritual! The Anglo-Celts themselves act as if theyve always been there, when they havent. Theyre newcomers to this land as well! But they throw their weight around & act like the "new onerous masters." Then they ask the dumbest question of all: Why did my dad leave in the first place? Simple: Whilst he liked the Meditreanean topography/landscape, Australia's landscape was also nice too! Heck all of the Earth's biosphere is beautiful! God never allocated certain regions for certain peoples. The whole Earth is an oyster. But at the end of the day, Im not an Anglo. Australia will face international isolation because of this in the future.
Hello, finally I found people that are going through the same problems I am ATM. I live in Perth, WA. My origin is from a Latin American country and I've been here for almost a year. I am an Accountant with more than 20 years experience in several companies and some of them even multinational, from USA and Germany. I came under a 176 Visa, Skilled Sponsored with my wife and my kids. I left everything behind , sold house, quit my job, closed a business I had just to pursue the "Australian Dream" which has become the "Australian Nightmare". I cannot get a decent job in my field , not even a single job interview. I have sent around 200 resumes and not a single phone call, I am hopeless and desperate. Nobody tells me why is this happening or what's wrong with me; I have lost my self confidence and have fear about the future. I am under a lot of stress and even some health issues related to these problems. I suspect racism and discrimination, maybe even they fear I can beat any of the locals in skills and experience and steal their top management jobs. I am far better than many of the locals and I have proof of this. Nobody is willing to give an opportunity to immigrants, DO NOT COME AT ALL! Australia just want immigrants to spend our hard earned money overseas in here, let's open our eyes. Their economy is strong not because they are good but because of the money that everyday arrives from overseas and from foreign students attending the schools and universities, how clever they are. The unemployment rate is 5%, this is higher than in my home country!!They give a fuck about immigrants that they even sponsor for Visas. I realized this after being here for many months. How naive and stupid I was. I am sick of this place. Hate this retarded and mediocre country. I am planning my way back home. Everything extremely expensive and boring as well. I agree with many of the bloggers here. PLEASE SPREAD THE WORD THAT THE AUSTRALIAN DREAM DOES NOT EXIST! THEY JUST WANT FOREIGN MONEY IN THEIR ECONOMY.
ReplyDeleteBye
DeleteI think that is true. I have also read somewhere a very qualified electrician with international reputation unable to get a job in Oysterlia, probably the reason is that person lacks experience in australia. Can you imagine that high standard? Not even an international standard!
DeleteI've been living here for quite some time too, you know what. It's hard to make friends in here, people either don't care or anti social. I'm thinking to leave this place too in the future.
Every country is the same. They are all fending for themselves and promoting themselves.
DeleteI agree it is anti social - you have to be cool/powerful to have friends
Hi Roo -
DeleteAccording to your logic, which one of the following then apply (Please note I am using the examples below for research purposes):
1. If am born in the Middle East from a 'terrorist country', should I go and promote such.
2. If I am born in the Middle East, but raised in a Western country, i.e. USA, which one should I go and promote? Should I deceive the country I was raised in order to protect the interests of the country I was born?
3. Do I join a terrorist group?
4. All of the above?
5. Don't care.
My question then to Australia is then: if you promote SO MUCH Multiculturalism, then, why are you such a coward to display in in the public eye? Why, if you promote a harmony in culture integration, still deceive the world to steal the immigrant resources? As someone put it in the forum, even the Nazis eliminated unemployment. My question is then, are you bringing food to the table for you and your children?
Hi Byron
ReplyDeleteWe are a couple from the UK about to return as we have not enjoyed our time in Oz. My partner looked for 2 months for a job, and literally nothing. No one even had the decency to call or email him a rejection. The UK is dark and cold, but there is so much more opportunity there. My job out here was a good 5 years behind what I can do in London, and it felt like career suicide for me. So we have decided to return to what was a better and less expensive life back home
Hi,
ReplyDeleteI'd like to add another perspective. We moved to Sydney a year ago from South Africa. Job wise, my wife had a job offer from a global company before we even made the decision to move here. Myself, I was fortunate to transfer within my company which is also a very large global corporate.
So compared to some folks, we've had it good. Our flights and container were even paid for by the company, plus, we had an apartment sorted before we flew out of Johannesburg. Once here, we were welcomed with open arms, invited to tea by families in the neighbourhood etc.
So I should have nothing to complain about right ? Wrong. I still do not like it here. I have friends who struggle to get jobs, because they don't have 'local experience!' I guess locals are too limited in thinking to realise that international experience is a good thing !
The nanny society has it's pros, but I feel far too claustrophobic here. Too many rules for the littlest of things ! I understand the need for not speeding but REALLY ! They're over-cautious over here. Even, if i'm willing to stomach all of this, it kills me to see my sign growing up away from his grandparents and cousins, to whom he was very close.
It's safer here and all of that, but boy, what have I given up to come live here in isolation, in someone else's country. Despite the friendly folks in my neighbourhood, it's still possible to be lonely in a crowd.
I'm headed right back to Johannesburg ! Home is home ! Lesson learnt !
DooleyZA
Did you go home Dooley, in the end? Would love to know and would love to know if it as worth it.
Deletethanks for you comments guys, i found the UK to be very limited job wise.
ReplyDeleteDooley, I fully understand the isolation thing. that word sums it up tremendously, although not everyone feels like SA is home. Nice beaches in Australia etc, but no point in going to a beach alone, is there?
I am very sick of living in Sydney too. I found a job as an administrator but I cannot make friends at work. Then I went to TAFE but everyone treated me coldly. I went to meetup groups but cannot make any friends too.
ReplyDeleteI really want to leave this country, I will leave after I gain 1 more yr of exp as I am a fresh grad from 2009.
BYE BYE SYDNEY BYE BYE AUSTRALIA FXXK U
bye
DeleteIn AU they will take your money away, the system and mentality of people is set to take all money away, not only immigrant's money. ALL MONEY even own one. For 10cc you get killed. Theft and corruption is normal here. Mindless bureaucracy is just hard to stand. There is no job here, if you get a job will be for low pay on the level of slavery. If it is high pay then you work 12h per day and it is expected to be normal. Rent is high 350-450pw where you do on average $500pw, travel to work or from work takes hours in cities like MEL or SYD. There is no law protecting against exploitation and corporate abuse (they say that there is one but what it is is dysfunctional). Telecoms, Energy, etc are doing what they can to send you wrong bill, deliver bad service and take your money again. Government, Police, Medical will rip you off on anything they can. Retail steals in white day, you get goods and when it breaks good luck, very often they sell you second hand things repacked and restocked. Life is not enjoyable. You have no friends here, live alone. That is why people leave, cannot have good life as AU do advertise. I used to live in NZ, left for better to AU. Going back to NZ. You come here, all you get is high debt and no way to repay it. In NZ I have never ever had any debt in my life, in AU it does balance on average like 10K per person. Everyone I know struggles and they stay here because they are in sky rocking debts so no way to escape. Hardship of life and stress is the factor why people are leaving AU not some theories as above. Most of my friends who arrived here did leave for good after 2 to 3 years.
ReplyDeleteThey say Skill On Demand, then more people coming here. But after arrived are these skills still on demand? Job is very limited, what you see is not what you get. There are still many factors for you to get a job besides your qualifications and experiences, I know many people end up working in a completely different field and most of them are lower skill and salary compare to their qualification.
DeleteExpensive is one thing, overpriced is another thing. You don't necessarily get double quality for overpriced goods or services. Sometimes it's even lucky for you to get a real customer service in here. How do you feel when you want to offer them money but they treat you with 'who you are? I am Oz!' personality. What does that mean? That means they want to get something from you for nothing, nothing to lose. But nothing is free mate!
If you are renting, from my own experience, they will try to rip you off as best as they can. Some even using illegal way, are you surprised?! Of course no!
Student is a bucket of money. Immigrant is a business, people our business. It's all about money. What makes you think their economy is strong in the past few years? It's not because of Aussie Apple product or Ferrari made in Oz but it's from overseas people coming here, all of them are trying their luck. They market themselves and create great propaganda. You need to be aware between what you saw and told about australia and the reality. Many people can't get a job simply because of their name. Can you see what they expect from their employee?
The discrimination, collusion and money sucking culture are systemized and structured. All you can see is blue sky, nice beach with the UV of course, multicultural foods, big smile at the circus, fresh air, they are all beautiful aren't they. However, this is just my opinion, if you find this place is best for you then you are more than happy to come here and live Australian way. Cheers mate!
I came to Australia in 2009 as an exchange student from Germany. Back then the Euro was high and the prices here were, though still more expensive, tolerable. After a while here I met a girl and when I finished my degree in Ger I decided to come back and start a live here.
ReplyDeleteScince then it has been a constant financial struggle, the visa price has been raised twice in the last year and is now almost double from what it used to be. Rip off is the only term to describe it. On top of that the prices for almost anything are horrendous here, groceries, electronics, cars, insurance and rent is up to 40% more expensive than in Europe.
On top of that is the price for fines, $73 for a parking ticket, $ 153 for 5km over the speed limit (100km speed limit on a five lane freeway is simply absurd), the list could go on and on.
The sad thing is that everything is about money in this country which honestly disgusts me.
A personal thing for me is also the distances. From the suburbs to the city takes easily 30-40 minutes what makes a social life almost impossible.
Not everything is bad here, the job market is quite good for high qualified people like me and so I was able to get work very fast. However, social security is almost not existend. 10 days of sick leave per year is not suffiecient if you break your arm or leg and then you don't get paid anymore. Last week I had to go to work with the flu and fever only to not miss out on my paycheck, this is exploitation and should be abolished immediately.
I can not see myself living in Australia for very long for the above reasons.
As soon as I get my visa ,for which I have paid too much money to give it up, I will leave Australia.
Europe is simply the best place to live in this world as you can get everywhere in a matter of a few hours, have a functioning social security system and most of all you can afford all of it.
I was really positive and excited when I arrived but this country has more bad sides than good and I recommend anyone who can to leave or to change the system.
We have been down in Victoria for almost 3 years. After a lot of tossing and turning, we are relieved to decide we are going to go home to the UK!
ReplyDeleteAustralia is great for Aussie people. Good for them. Most of them love it and you risk being shunned if you are negative about their beloved land.
But Oz is not great for most other nationalities. Why? Well for starters, you don't have your mates or family near you. For us, people are more important than how sunny or nice a country is. Connections and real chemsitry with close friends is what really matters. We have enjoyed the adventure but to stay here means giving up on meaningful connections with the people we adore. It is just too much to ask and I think we would live a lonely life here. We'd feel terrible regret in 30 years time no doubt. So it is best for us to return to Europe and see the UK through fresh eyes - make the best of our situation and enjoy the relationships! Good luck to anyone who wants to give Oz a go. It is a good adventure and you will learn so much about who you are and what actually matters to you as a person. But Oz is not some paradise - it has many sides to it, that are never displayed on the glossy travel brochure x
Hi An anonymous,
Deletedid you leave Australia? Are you happy with you move?
Your experiences would be much appreciated!!
my god the sooner you all go the better!! Been here for 30 years and have a life we couldn't even dream of in grey dirty old England.Australia cannot make up for the family you left-if they are so important why did you leave them to start with.You would most likely have the very same problems in any new country.I do not listen to whinging poms anymore-lifes too short!!
ReplyDeleteMy parents dragged me to Australia when I was a kid. I hated it from the moment I got there, and eventually, after many years and despite parental discouragement, I returned to the UK 20 years ago and have never looked back.
DeleteAnd you know what - 10 years after I moved to Oz my parents followed me back - turns out my Mum had never liked it either but hadn't told my Dad until I'd settled back in England.
Oz is fine for some - I don't want to be rude about it - but it never worked for me or my family.
30 years ago house prices in Australia where affordable a very good house for a low price.
DeleteNow new migrants are shafted at every turn especially on house prices.A move to Australia is like financial suicide.
Australia is a fantastic country and close to my heart but it has become a total RIP OFF
I came back to Aust after living in the UK for 10 yrs. It was the dumbest thing I've ever done in my life.
ReplyDeleteIt's just ridiculous here compared to the UK.
To bottom line it...with $5.00 AUD you either get bread or milk. You can not get both. With the equivalent money in the UK you do get both. More of and better quality.
The schooling in the UK runs rings around the moron pay check teachers here and their stupid curriculum. Free schooling there actually means just that. And because I'm a single mum of two. My eldest that is at school gets free quality school meals. Not here. My son used to get around $10.00 a day for lunch because it was a school tuck shop the prices were much dearer than a shop and a salad roll was nearly $6.00.
I absolutely HATE it here and am doing everything I can to get us back. I only came back here because my mother talked me into it by saying my son needed to be around his family. When we got back and had lost everything we had. We didn't see anyone. My mother charged me all my pension for rent and I was left nothing to live on. Coming back here and trusting people from here ( my family ) was a big mistake and now my eldest son is paying for it.
I need to get back. I don't want my 15 month old starting school here and I want my eldest to get to Uni in the UK. Money is my only problem. I don't have any. I have no friends and no family.
Wow..before reading this I was very sure I wanted to move to Australia. Now I am quite uncertain. Maybe it's best just to visit on holiday instead??
ReplyDeleteDon't bother for settlement or holiday. There are far nicer places in the world.
DeleteI would say, if you can, migrate here for one year. The make a decision.
DeleteDon't bring all your stuff keep it light.
I was mad to go and start working in australia. Many people have this idea that they can make huge money in Oz but the reality is that the money they earn compared to the cost of living, doesn't make them save an awful lot. Due to global economic problems, and its dependacy on China, i have a strong feeling that Australia aint as stable as people make it out to be... whats the truth behind it??
ReplyDeleteI tend to agree with what you are saying about the economy in Australia not being as sound as they tell us.
DeleteAlready we are seeing large amounts of mining employees being retrenched due to a downturn in Iron Ore prices, with the recent carbon tax and mineral taxes that came into law here, this will only further add pressure to what is (in my opinion) an industry which is showing signs of downturn. Since the mining industry here relies heavily on China, and the Australian economy relies heavily on the mining industry, I feel Australia has too many of it's eggs in the one basket.
Hi,
ReplyDeleteI left OZ over 40 yrs ago to live in Germany (from where my Parents came from) and I love it up there. I come home occassionally on a visit but have no intention of living in OZ again. Too hot/sticky too many snakes spiders and the country is soon going to be an integral part of Asia.
BYE
Hi,
DeleteWhat's wrong with Asia by the way?
Racism and bullying is the worse part of australia. i came here in 1972 and it was awful . then i married a philippina in 2005 and she is leaving to go home next month because she has been bullied and driven out of 2 jobs in disability . she is the hardest worker ive ever met and aussies dont like hard workers. if you work hard and get on with it even if its just to relieve bordom your a threat to them because they are lazy and inefficiant often criminally negligent or just plain criminals and they dont like hard workers. its not only disability ive worked in retail and manual labour and every where youll find dumb smelly aussies who dont want to work and resent any one who does a good job .pity you australia
ReplyDeleteI am an indian, came to australia with family in 2006 with a great dream of having a beautiful lifestyle, however in past six years i have lost $250,000 in living expenses and still strugling to find a good job. and now at the age of 30 finally enrolled in a aged care course to earn some bucks to sustain my family. i have lost almost everything finance, self pride , confidence etc. even i can't go back to my country because i have wasted all my money here just in a hope of good future here. but apart from australians no body is growing. you just have a best friend which is lonliness. From my experience take advantage and dont look to settle here. Thanks Raj
ReplyDeleteSorry to here this Raj, Are you still here in Australia? have things gotten better for you?
DeleteDon't like it, leave... PLEASE LEAVE .... ! I can't stand hearing yous all bagging out such a fortunate country with so much going for it... This makes me sick... Who are these people...!? Why are they talking like this...?! Do you know how many people will love to be here...? All the refugees we don't know what to do with because they keep coming here...?! You whingers are crazy... Don't like it, leave... Do us all a favour...
ReplyDeleteyou have obviously never seen the world... perhaps you too need to leave and see what else is out there, then come back and see if you feel the same way.
DeleteFrom your comments, I can see you may be a teenager.
DeleteTypical ignorant comment, "If you don't like it, leave." Why is the native community so brainwashed to automatically say this response? Why cannot you properly think that many of us who moved here wanted to improve things in the country for the best? Oh right... You all are brainwashed to think about Formula 1 races and beer. Oh right... You all have the mentality not to face problems but rather flush them down the toilet...
Yes, agreed. It is such a fortunate country with so much going for it; yet, if it is a country that is so PROUD about its Multiculturalism... Why do we not see this evidence in real life?
You've just said it... all the refugees... I and many of the members in this blog are not REFUGEES... Many of us had better standards of living in our countries of origin or the countries we were working before being swayed by this government to move here.
Perhaps, educate more yourself instead of going to the nightclubs every weekend... do Australia a big favour...
I wouldn't have wasted so many words on these highfalutin's. Just say good bye
DeleteIf people wont associate with them, maybe they should try deodorant?
We are not that much of an instant society, and some people need to work at being personable. They need to find people with similar interests and then they may fit in. Sounds like they don't try too hard huh?
I just want Afrikaners to leaves and stop immigrating to Australia Melbourne in particularly which in 2013 saw an increase always racist always complaining if its so bad in Australia leaves the problem with you Afrikaner is.that you think Australia or the world owes you something you expect red carpet treatment when you first immigrate to Australia and have the attitude of always self entitlement always arguing with local Australians and refusing to follow rules, it makes me sick that.more Afrikaner are arriving to Australia your.accent.and overall negative attitude is why the majority of Australians hate YOU DO ALL YOURSELVES A FAVOUR AND LEAVE FOR OTHER COUNTRIES. Other nationalities im fine
DeleteWow seems like a quite a lot of posts regarding the attitude of Afrikaners online. Anyone else got anything to say about it?
DeleteAssaults against Indian students-Racism in Australia
ReplyDeleteSexual assaults on women on buses in New Delhi - Gang Rapists in India
DeleteAfter 5 years in Oz, I am leaving, as I have a job in Asia paying just about the same rate as I am earning here. I can now get a place 3x the size I have here in Sydney for 2/3's the cost and day to day costs are a fraction of those here. Of course I could have stayed and got PR here but the offer in Asia was too good to turn down. Although my family and myself have enjoyed our time here, we have found the Aussie lifestyle somewhat of a myth, no backyard barbies, no backyard cricket, a morning dip in the sea is an afternoon weekend one every few weeks.
ReplyDeleteI will miss the urban greenery, $2.50 Family Funday tickets, work-life balance but not the costs, surly service, the 1984 type bureaucracy.
Australia is a great place but being an outsider means it has been harder to get into the Aussie culture.
I think I might go back too to my home town in Asia and no it's not Japan or Korea. The Australian dream is to have basic human need, which is a house.
DeleteThat's so spot-on! They take something so simple and essential as owning a house, and make "the Australian dream" out of it. You become a debt slave in Australia, that's all the country has to offer. PATHETIC.
DeleteI am planning to leave Oz after migrating here from Zimbabwe with my family about 28 years ago!! Educating kids was the top priority and focus for many of those years and there was no option to return to Zimbabwe so we just got on with it. However, after almost three decades of experiencing the 'Tall Poppy Syndrom" I have had enough. I have met some lovely Australians but by and large find the majority are inward looking and suspicious of anyone who does not sound like a true blue Ozzie! I do not want to spend my older years feeling resentful so am off to greener pastures where people know how to have fun that does not have to involve copious amounts of alcohol!
ReplyDeleteCame in 2004 - both hubby and me were jobless for 2 years - when we did find jobs they paid us just enough to pay for sharing accommodation. No we are not unqualified nor inexperienced. Then got my self childcare education and experience and hubby got a job with a relative- earned some and thought now we can just settle down - but bam.. within a month both lost our jobs and have been unemployed since then. My husband sent cv after cv to similar and identical job openings, even to lower paid and lower positions- but not even a courteous reply was received- mind u, it included local experience that most people would give an arm and a leg for and to which professional cv writers assured him would land him a job in no time. Have gone through all our hard earned savings of over 200k, and are living in rented accommodation.
ReplyDeleteNow 55 plus am certain that Aus will offer us nothing except a hand to mouth existence with no support in our old age as we have no home and not enough super to fall back on.
I love Australia - life is not complicated if u don't do business - you can't get into trouble if u only visit national parks - multicultural cuisine & fine dining are treats that are enjoyed out of cheap plastic containers at a food mall - free water views as u drive over a bridge to work if u have one or laze by the see side unemployed - if you have a foreign name it's easily revised and u are welcomed to integrate into becoming another sheila - free medicals for all the colds and coughs but in the process if your teeth fall of hey...u don't get dental care free of charge any where in the world either - but if u call the medics.... now that's worth being in aus for, THEY ARE SIMPLY THE BEST, as are our brave FIRE FIGHTERS - education is geared to make sure the teachers get paid(thank God for that) despite all things down, down under, I love being here - it's home... except that home is beginning to choke us and, that hurts.
Hurting Sheila
Hi All,
ReplyDeleteI am speechless after reading these experiences as I relate with each and every one of them.
I am another victim of such immigration program scam. I was sold the land of opportunity in this country, but my experience in this phony version of developed countries is that the perception is tremendously different from reality. Such perception is aided by marketing campaigns and propaganda supported by the Australian government.
Four years ago I immigrated from the USA to Australia full of dreams, ambitions, and good desires. I had arrived in this place with the woman I thought I would marry. We both landed jobs within weeks after arriving, so we thought we would live the dream. She was devoured by an evil system which made her the prostitute of corporations. I was made a scapegoat of decades of negligence, incompetency, and turmoil of another institution.
The system is all corrupted and ugly. I cannot think of any that suffer from this disease, i.e. banking, educational, medical, among others. Of Latino background and while attending a course at one of the "best" universities in this country, professors wouldn't call me to make presentations in the classroom to preserve the "white" image, for example. Doctors who live off government funding by prescribing "panadol" to many of their first clientele. Murderers, I say!
Such a nightmare! I feel for each and everyone in who can express their suppressed feeling in this forum/blog, or whatever you want to call it. Immigrants in this country are made the scapegoats of the stupidity of the "local" Australian. So much dependency from China.
Such a nightmare of the subtle attitude of this society... I preferred having "direct" attitude towards me than the subtle mannerism these creatures show. You never what is coming to you because of the "Tall Poppy Syndrome" this society and its creatures suffer from. One of the writers states, they feel "threat" and he/she is absolutely right! Spot on!
No national identity... No sovereignity... Xenophobia at its highest... Thank you God for creating the United States of America. I am going back there sooner rather than later. I am going back to the future. Over and out!
After thirty six years of being in Australia I have finally left. Thirty five years too late. A beautiful country with very hard people.
ReplyDeleteWell done to you. I don't even think it's a particularly beautiful country
DeleteHi all,
ReplyDeleteI am very sorry for every one who had a bad experience in OZ.
well, i moved to OZ 3 years ago and got my PR 2 years ago.
i am going to write my opinion based on my experience and hopefully i will try to cover as many points as i can:
1. People
I found the people here very friendly, the other interesting thing is that the country contains and respect all nationalities. and every body have the choice to interact with Australians people or people with the same nationality, it depends on where this person want to stay. i mean, there are areas where you can find most of the people belong to the same nationality. So, it's only depend on everyone's requirements.
some people are rude. I think this is normal in every country
2. work
regarding the jobs/pay/requirements.. i have submitted over 500 job application and had less than 5 interviews. i don't have any local experience, as i spent my previous 3 years doing my PhD in Telecom. Eng., 100's of job vacancies are advertised everyday, the standard is very high and there are lots of skilled people in the country, this make it a bit harder to find a suitable job. the competition is very high. again, i guess this is normal because companies always look for the best available skilled people. they do respect the overseas experience and consider it if it's related to the role.
3. life
well, isolation, boring, ...etc. these terms are actually emotional and different people may have different feeling about them.
the country provide lots of facilities, entertainments and activities by which, families are able to spend a great time. if you miss your relative in your home country, i understand that people miss their relatives, unfortunately Australia won't bring all of them to make you happier :-).
It is normal not to be able to make many friends (MANY) because you are coming from different culture, and you should be able to adapt to the new one. If you cannot, and therefore decided to go back home, the shouldn't blame Australia.
4. expensive
Yes totally agree, the life here is very expensive and nobody can live without a minimum income to cover their basic needs. However, the country provides different kinds of family assistance to help families to have the minimum life requirements until they find jobs and become independents.
The income here is high compared to other countries, that's why it's expensive.
5. security,
i think the life in Australia is quite secure and safe, police every where you only need to be at the safe places, nice and easy :-)
I am sorry if i hurt any of you, i know that my experience is very little and hopefully i won't suffer on a later time.
I think the different between different migrants is the "expectations". someone would love Australia if he was insecure in his home country and become secure here. or some one who was unemployed in his home country and got a good employment opportunity after migration to OZ. On the other hand, for those who had a good relaxed life in his country, it would be very hard for him/her to move to Australia and change all the life style.
For this reason, it's important to give weights to every single advantage/disadvantage about the life in Australia and then do a simple calculation and check if you are going to be happier in Australia or your home country. This will make it much easier to make a right decision. It's more significant to do this calculations before migrating to Australia, save time, efforts and money by collecting as much and useful information from the Internet as possible.
I wish the best of luck to all migrants in either their home countries or here in Australia..
I believe that there is nothing perfect on this earth, life is getting tougher and harder, but we have no choice except facing it.
Finally, i would like to suggest everyone who face any problem not to keep silent and talk loudly about their problems, i found the Australian system to be fair and helpful.
Kind Regards
Nick
Congratulations! You are finally assimilated with Australian really well. Everyone can call you Australian now. They need people like you, congratz!
Delete"they do respect the overseas experience and consider it if it's related to the role." - are you sure ? I don't think so. They don't even see my 4 years work experience at one of Australian bank in other country. Which, they are using the same system, procedure and skills.
DeleteThere are a number of factors for employment, the job market is tight here. I worked at one place where at least 60% of the software engineers were Asian.
DeleteAlso, the banks are generally very strict, I know at least one bank that do a tech test - expecting in the 90% (you are expected to know your stuff), they also do a psych eval which evaluates drive, logic, responsibility, interaction with team mates (A lot of people fail this - especially on the intelligence/logic side) and then the soft skills interviews.
What people don't realize is that most of the banks have moved their IT offshore. They only employ a select few "onshore" (Australia) here to keep the bolts tightened and these employed are generally the best of the best.
I dont really agree. I moved to oz about a year ago. I am one of the most outgoing, friendly, and independent person I know. I am now leaving with a bad taste in my mouth almost resenting this country. People (like myself) are leaving because its too expensive, the amount of red tape and regulatioafterns are out of control. Its a common misconception that Aussies are friendly because they really arent that friendly. Its also a pretty boring place to live. There isnt much going on and its the same thing day. I get it, its still life and I knew that coming here but I was (still am) dissappointed with so many aspect of the life style here. Ive made some really great friends here but I dont think even that will ever make me want to come back.
ReplyDeleteOz is overated. 15-20 years ago it was a great place to move too. Hard work could get u the Ozzie dream back then and the food was top quality. That was before everyone got greedy and everything got way too expensive. Now its like everywhere else.....fucked and going nowhere. People should move to Oz for 1 year before really commiting everything to a permanent move. That will get rid of those rose tinted glasses. Home is where the heart is guys.....nothing can change that.
ReplyDeleteAs an Australian I do not recommend coming here, I am leaving myself. It's racist, expensive and it's almost impossible to find work unless you have the right contacts. The schools are appalling and there is nothing open after 7pm.
ReplyDeleteI really love native Australians who have this mentality. Those Australians who are educated and have traveled overseas.
DeleteI am Australian and lived in both China and Russia for a total of 7.5 years. The worst mistake I made was returning to Australia. We only returned due to the financial crisis and our job security in Moscow. Upon arriving in Australia it became very obvious that Australians are obsessed with "local experience". I understand some industries need it but at the end of the day it became quite evident that Australians are really a racist bunch, not openly racist, probably a better way to describe Australians is "narrow-minded". "Local experience" is what employers tell foreigners as an easy rejection for the job applicant. My wife is not Australian and she submitted 100s of resumes with the same "local experience" or thanks but no thanks standard responses, no calls for any interviews. It became really frustrating and we decided to do something really interesting, we changed her foreign name to an Australian one. The result was amazing, within a couple of weeks she had a job, that ended 1.5 years of being unemployed for her despite working for one of Europe's largest financial companies with amazing experience and expertise. We also had to dumb ourselves down to find jobs, we removed a lot of our foreign experience, removed any details about nationality, etc. Australia is a very slow moving country compared to the fast pace economies of China and Russia, Australia can really benefit from people like us, sure we may not have the "local experience" but our overseas experience is worth 100 times more. All I can say is that moving here was definitely the biggest mistake of our lives, sure we are okay now but we wasted a good 1.5 years of our lives, frustrating years.
ReplyDeleteAfter several years seeking a professional job, I have finally secured one stacking shelves. Top-notch education is finally paying off!!!
ReplyDeleteI have an Sc.D in computer science. the Best job I could land here in 10 yrs, a customer service rep at harvey norman, doing refunds and exchanges. I kid you not!
DeleteHi -
DeleteI read your story and feel sorry for you and your family. I hope going back to Ireland may help you stabilize and re-gain back your confidence, inner strength and pride.
I have wasted 5 years of my life in here and my body is not the same it used to be when I initially moved here... The government, corporations and government job agencies will not give a single crap for our loss. Perhaps, we should focus more on the positives and what is ahead in our lives...
We may be able to tell prospect immigrants overseas the harsh reality about Australia.
Don't take me wrong and I don't mean to sound as a hypocrite. Yes, this country is great and has so much going for it, as a teenager puts it above. But... how can we all enjoy of such greatness, i.e. housing, clothing, entertainment, food, etc, if the wealth and that part of quality of life is only reserves to some groups? It doesn't make sense for me...
Even native Australians who are educated and have traveled overseas agree on this point.
Talk soon.
I find that as pleasant as Australia might be as a holiday vacation, the truth is that the realities exist in the forms of long-term unemployment for those who do not have what Australians call "local experience", the exorbitant costs of living (even higher than in Japan, Singapore, or Canada in most cases), and the absolute absence of social life for younger professionals, due to the early closing times of most places and stores, as well as the need to work constantly to maintain the high costs of living. Most Australians are not as 'racist' in the way that I would say that we hear about them. You will not get spat on as a foreigner, because nowadays, there are many foreigners coming into Australia and working in the menial jobs which Australians do not always do, as well as international students who might not get access to excellent education back in their own home country. But the 'local experience' clause does seem to be a major obstacle for many, me included.
DeleteI took up a casual retail job as someone who had a PhD from a Canadian university, lectured in a Japanese university as a professor for a few years, and am of Southeast Asian heritage. As much as I understand all the need for 'local' experience, I do not see how foreign experience cannot be translatable in some cases, especially in the cases of higher education. In most cases, while I do not technically blame Australia for being this way, since it often boils down to our own expectations, I have to admit that there is a real gap between our perceptions(or illusions of a place) and the truth of the matter. There is never, and will never be, a perfect country, no matter how good or bad it is, and Australia is also a country with its good and bad points much like any. My main point is this, retrospect often gives one the 20/20. If the heart yearns for something which Australia cannot give, or if you desire a better financial state which Australia is not giving you, you either work to improve it while staying on, or just go somewhere else. This is the hard fact of the matter, and no one should ever be ashamed to leave if he or she does not like it here in Australia. But in the meantime, perhaps, I think that we should learn more about ourselves. When you know what you really want, then you will be more able to handle difficult situations like those which are mentioned in the posts above.
Hi,I am a thirteen year old girl who was made to move to oz by my mum. She is a nurse. I had to leave my dad behind and I miss him every day. He is a lovely dad, and I am sad for him too, because he fought a court case to stop my mum taking me but lost. He tries to be brave when we talk on skype but I can see he is sad like me. I told the court welfare people I wanted to come, and I feel guilty about that every day, because i only said it so my mum wont get angry at me. she gets angry really easily. I have not made any friends in 8 months and want to go home but am stuck here and I hate my mum for bringing me. All my friends in england are moving on, and I miss them all the time. They all think I live in paradise but its not. Its too hot here, and I hate creepy crawlies. Everyone says england is cold and dark but its not. I love our spring and our summer and our autumn and our winter. I am very sad, and I hate oz! I cant wait to move back.
ReplyDeleteHave lived in australia for 7 years never felt settled here ,came from uk .Now have no choice but to stay as husband will not return as he loves life here.Have 3 children so Australia is their home now,only option for me is to suck it up and maybe one day will feel like i fit more
ReplyDeleteHi -
DeleteFind something that can occupy your mind. A project or a hobby.
I've done so and it's helped me. It helps me put my mind aside of the harsh realities of this country.
I came to australia because my wife whos australian has a medical condition which wont allow her to get an american visa..... Dont get me wrong i love my wife but every day the thought of Suicide grows on me the only reason why i havent done it is who would take care of her? God know if i could leave i would
ReplyDeleteHi,
ReplyDeleteThe bad thing about Australia is that it is faraway from everywhere basically you should forget about all beloved ones. It is so expensive because you have to add the cost of your overseas trip and at the end of the day you have less saving than what you thought although your income is triple than your country. simply because you have to spent more money.
There is not such a thing as equality between men and women and Australia has less population growth which makes women vulnerable to less education and lower income. It is just the society demand.
After reading a lot of these posts I have been finally reassured that it's not me after all, or nothing that I did, other than come here on that same premise that others have, "for a better life".
ReplyDeletelet me share my story. I come from Northern Ireland, yes, I grew up in the midst of the troubles there, the bombs, bullets and violence. Not somewhere you'd want to bring up a family, especially if you had the chance to move to Australia, right? Well we thought so too.
Myself and my (Australian) partner had a fairly comfortable lifestyle back in Northern Ireland, we had our own place, both worked in jobs, no debt and family and friends around us.
We came to Australia in August 2002 for a better life for our 9mth old daughter, as Australia has always had the stereotype of the land of milk and honey, at least back in Ireland, anyway.
long story short. Arrived in Brisbane in 2002. Couldn't get work anywhere (I'm an I.T. professional), 18mths went by and hundreds of job applications later, I landed a job as a customer service rep in Harvey Norman, doing exchanges and refunds for customers. The job paid award wages (basic wage) and it was a dead end job, it was depressing, but it was a job.
after 4 mths, Harvey Norman decided that I should probably move on, so I did. Since I couldn't find work anywhere (not that there was no work, its just that I wasn't getting any responses from any applications I had made), I decided to start my own I.T. business. This brought in some income but we were really breaking even over income v's expenses, however it allowed me to work and feel like I was doing something with my time.
We sustained this basic "head above water" lifestyle for 4 yrs. In 2008 we had to give it all up because our rent jumped $50 per week to $410 per week for a 3br house. we had to move. We moved in with the Mother-in-law in NSW. I applied for too many jobs to remember. Again, I was being ignored, employers seemingly not interested in even replying to my applications! very frustrating! eventually I was told by one employer, that because I was not a citizen, I would be always chosen second over an Australian citizen. Controversial statement? most definitely, I am a permanent resident, allowed to live and work here indefinitely, and I was being told that I will always be second choice over a citizen. This wasn't the opinion of one employer either, quite a few since have told me things like "we feel your accent would be troublesome in dealing with customers", to "We feel that your age might make it uncomfortable in the role as you'd be working with much younger people - i'm 38!). In short, there seems to be a consensus amongst Australian employers that anyone other than Australian Citizens will not be chosen, where Australians can work the job themselves. The one place where this seems to be not the case, is the mines, but I've been rejected from over a dozen applications to the mines as well...
in short, we are now leaving Australia to return to Ireland. We have done nothing but struggle since we arrived in 2002, our friends and family we left behind in Ireland have all moved on with their lives and enjoy better standards of living that we do here. Although they disagree with us moving back because they think that a lifestyle in the sun would be great, though as some commentators above have already stated, this is just them looking through rose coloured glasses... or as I like to call it "blinded by the sun".
My experience over my 10 yrs here has been that I have wasted 10 yrs of my life. I will never get those 10yrs back, but what I will get back, is my life, and that will be by moving back to Ireland.
Hey!
DeleteKeep us posted with how your life goes in Ireland.
Cheers,
Thanks Jon for this long reply, would really like to know how your move went and whether you are enjoying your return to your home country.
DeleteI moved.here almost two years ago from London. I noticed many migrants from the UK come from small towns and regional cities in the UK. Of course this major city (Sydney) will be more expensive and less friendly than their home towns. It's a big city. Not by Asian standards, but as a successful city of course it will be expensive. I get low too and sometimes slip into thinking that negative things are because other is Australia. But on reflection I think that that is the easy excuse. The fact is that it is hard to build a new life anywhere. People are quick to cry racism but this city is so multi ethnic and as a recruiter myself I am finding jobs for Indians, Chinese, South Americans and Europeans as well as locals on a daily basis and I find much less discrimination than in London. My clients want people who can speak English well and those who don't will struggle. But having lived in the UK, the US, France, China and Japan I really don't find people more or less racist in any country. It's harsh but that is the way of the world.
ReplyDeleteI get very lonely and tired and miss family and friends and am finding it hard to make friends, but my wife (who is not Anglo by the way) has already made a seal but supportive network of wonderful people. I get down and clmsoder going back to London. But I wouldn't blame Australians. It seems that thee is a.lot of bitterness in this forum. Although I have those thoughts too, the fact is that if we chose this challenge we can't expect it to be simple. If I do leave it will be because I needed to go. Not because Australians are awful. Incidentally although it is expensive, I was able to support my entire family on just one salary for an entire year here. Something we could never dream of in London.
I noticed many migrants, too, particularly from Third-World Countries having a severe impact and drain in the economy. Many of these migrants settle for lower wages resulting in a lesser quality of life for all.
DeleteYes, you are right. There is less discrimination, but the type of discrimination in here is subtle. The majority simply isolates the outsider - take for instance the Aborigines. Isolation is in my opinion worse. Take it for instance with my case. I was having a successful career overseas when all of the sudden recruiters/companies WILL NOT even look at my CV nor call me. The self-fulfilling prophecy of the typical immigrant is now on me: (1) No experience, (2) No job, (3) Cannot move up.
Of course there is bitterness in this forum. It is the only place where we all who have been left behind and isolated can vent. If I leave, it will be because of a combination of both.
I think migrants do not affect the economy, its all about whether the economy is growing, - research, industrial activity, startups. if a country is growing vibrantly the immigrants will provide fresh cheap labor. It looks like au is stagnant - not growing - possibly because of high import taxes, and distance, I have had the recent experience of woeking in an Asian country - where like for like programmers are 1/4 to 1/6 of cost of western programmers. Their economy is booming! its all about cost and drive to achieve.
DeleteAustralia definitely seems to not have a shortage of skilled labor as its not growing enough.
Too the thirteen year old girl, this is my advice. Try to make one friend - just one - i know its hard, but the sooner you try and make something of your situation it will eventually become better. It takes years and years to become used to a place. i know i spent 8 years in a foreign country and still dont like it. Nothing replaces what you grew up with unless you can make new memories. Start with one friend that you can chat with.
ReplyDeleteHaving just left Australia, I can honestly say that it was the worst five years of my life. We have lived throughout the world & Australia was like stepping back in time. The racist & petty mindedness of the Australian population was mind boggling. They seem to believe that they are entitled to Wealth without hard work, in fact most Aussies would faint from shock if they ever had to work hard. My family made a fortune, but it was painful to reduce my professionalism to their level. The convict heritage is definitely alive & kicking, a truly dreary, fly infested parochial land of mediocre people.
ReplyDeleteHi!
DeleteCongratulations! You have made it!
Sorry to ask you such a personal question, but has your live improved ever since you left?
Keep us posted!
bye
DeleteI came to Australia at age 17 with my parents. My parents returned to US two years later, while I stayed to make a life for myself here.
ReplyDeleteIn the late 60s it really was a land of enormous opportunity with pleny of jobs, free tertiary education and a huge manufacturing base. Over the years Australia has deindustrialised until now when only mining, service and a white collar jobs exist.
I am tertiary educated and have always contributed to society, but 10 years ago the regulating bureuocracy sent my business to the wall. Since then all the red tape sent me hurtling from an affluent lifestyle to my present third world lifestyle. (Most of my income is spent on rent.) I am reeducating myself and saving every cent to leave this country, though its not easy - since the carbon tax came in on 1 July my power bill climbed $1200.00 in a one person and a dog household. I am now staying warm this winter with a hot water bottle and thermal undies because my small blow heater usues too much electricity.
I hate to say this because, ulike some posters, I love the Aussies, but I believe this economy is going down and I hope to step off a sinking ship in time.
My son was born here and even he left for an Asian country 6 years ago. He tells me that there is no future in Australia and my experiences have certainly validated this. Im not sure if I should go back to the US and join my elderly mother or move to Asia. I never thought I would plan to leave this country after 42 years. Im sorry for all those migrants who have had bad experiences, but you have to understand that even the Aussies are hurting from the backward and destructive government policies that have destroyed this country. Good luck to everyone, and please post an update to let us know how you go after the move. Cheers.
So I am not alone ...
ReplyDeleteplenty of people are unhappy an lonely in their new countries.
DeleteNever felt that way in the USA. The system integrates you instantly. Oh, there is less institutionalized racism. I never thought of suicide nor attempted it in the USA as I was part of the country and the system despite other minor problems, and such.
DeleteI left having dealt with;
ReplyDelete1)Centerlink and their privacy issues
2)Family court and those discriminating laws against Fathers-I being one.
3)Legal aid which was a farce.
4)Your Attorney-General (see item 2)
5)Adoption fraud re; my Son...!!..got the apology-no compensation for years of destruction to my relationship to my Son.
6) CSA (child Support Agency) in a word-Harrassment (after..see item 2, again)
All in all great beaches, nice people, who have no clue what really goes on in their government..!!
I have been living here for almost 7 years now and I am thinking of leaving Australia for good. Aussie people use word such as culture all the time, but culture is more than just attitudes you brought to the workplace, the way you eat, etc. It is much greater than that.
ReplyDeleteIf there is an integral part of the culture, I would say the culture of bullying. Bunch of insecure people ingrained in their mentality. You can't look at the windows for too long as they will get angry and feel threatened, when you sit on public transport just look over the ceiling or look at your shoes!
If you don't act like the way they like, you will be bullied. Is that part of the culture?
Everything is overpriced, this and education sector are the main sources of Australia income, not because they are very good in earning money. From government with the slogan 'people our business' to real estate agent, energy companies, are all trying to ripped you off, they are elusive but not invisible yet structured and regulated. People who have benefited this so called the land of Aussie most of the time treated with no respect as if they are begging to live in here.
The market is very small particularly if you want to start a business. Business only monopolized by certain companies, no real genuine competition.
People have no interest in making friends and very superficial. There is no customer service, people just can't differentiate which one is their customer and which one is their friend/stranger.
Just like other country there is always positive and negative side but after living here for a while I consider in the near future to move back as the opportunities have been much much bigger there in Asia and sometimes you know it only after you live overseas for a while. I would like to keep participating in this country for the better future in general but from my own experience the understanding of local people here about the concept of immigration is somehow corrupted therefore my participation both financially and non-economically will be withdrawn soon before the departure.
I am about to get my immigration to Australia...am working in middle east at a very good package with a very decent life style; after reading all of this I am scared to death and have started having second thoughts....
ReplyDeleteMe too. I was planning to move to Australia in 2018. But after reading all of this, I don't think I will.
DeleteHundreds of thousands of dollars invested in my professional education and overseas professional education to end up working as a shop assistant in the checkouts. Every day the thought of Suicide grows on me.
ReplyDeleteI am astonished to see so many comments in line with my experience. Having spent more than six years in Australia, first "studying" their crappy courses, then working in crappy jobs, I sincerely warn everyone about this place, especially after GFC.
ReplyDeleteRacism, extreme downward pressure on wages, lack of ANY viable industries, prices of EVERYTHING through the roof, most expensive real estate in the world (let alone "quality") of their houses, virtually anything you look at is WORSE compared to civilized world (meaning middle class of Europe, the US, developed Asia and Middle East).
I sincerely warn anyone who indends to move to Australia from these places - do not do that, you will ruin your life for many years, before you realize what you did and move back.
Any questions, specifics, please feel free to ask here.
South Africa has some really good first world universities.
Deletemuch much cheaper than Australia. I am sending my son to South Africa to university.
Sorry about the mistakes, sending corrected version... PLEASE POST ONE.
ReplyDeleteI am astonished to see so many comments in line with my experience. Having spent more than six years in Australia, first "studying" their crappy courses, then working in crappy jobs, I sincerely warn everyone about this place, especially after GFC.
Racism, extreme downward pressure on wages, lack of ANY viable industries, prices of EVERYTHING through the roof, most expensive real estate in the world (let alone "quality" of their houses), virtually anything you look at is WORSE compared to civilized world (meaning middle class of Europe, the US, developed Asia and Middle East).
I sincerely warn anyone who plans to move to Australia from these places - please don't do that, you will ruin your life for many years, before you realize what you did and move back.
Any questions or specifics, please feel free to ask.
Did you end up moving?
DeleteYes, of course. The only regret I have is that I did not do that earlier.
DeleteThe declining living standards in Australia can be seen all over the place - extremely expensive housing, overpopulation and hence declining public transport, education, hospital care, crime, etc. I am not saying that overseas is a paradise, not at all, but Australia is truly losing the game, big time...
Hey! Thanks indeed for your reply. It is a matter of time before I move anywhere overseas. If you don't mind me asking, how is the job market outside of Australia? Is it really as awful as the media make it to be? What was your feeling once you realized you were not in Australia any longer? What country are you living in now?
DeleteIt's been six years for me as well and cannot secure any professional job except 'dirty jobs'. If I continue living in here, I may end up homeless living under a bridge.
Thank you very much for your time and advices.
Europe. It is a paradise compared to Australia. However, I come from Europe originally so I returned back home. I am not in favour of immigration, never, ever. Go back to your country and try and make something ouf of it, for your benefit and for the benefit of your nation. To be brutally honest, Australians are the most despicable people I met anywhere in the world. Having said that, I do understand why they are pissed off. Their country has no real productive economy and, since it must grow (exponential creation of money), its government came up with this "immigration scheme". It is like a cancer. It is based on ruthless exploitation of immigrants but, at the same time, it suppresses local wages and decreases living standards of the "locals". In any case, leave, Australia is NOT worth it, trust me.
DeleteDear Middle East prospective immigrant
ReplyDeleteI used to work in Dubai and migrated to Sydney last April. In Dubai, I was regional finance director for an American pharmaceutical company (ninth largest in the world), I am a London Business School MBA graduate, hold a masters degree in accounting and finance from university of Leeds and CPA Australia member. I migrated to oz on the premise that unemployment is 5.6% and that accountants are on the demand list which implies that I should be able to find a job. Since April 2013, I applied for hundreds of jobs ranging from analyst, manager to a director, and have not been successful in securing one single interview. Actually, I managed to build a relationship with three recruiting agencies. Michael page, Ambition, Moira Group, Hays and Randstad have no interest in answering my calls for a meeting with their consultants,despite the fact that I added their respective consultants on Linkedin and sent them in mails asking to meet with them. At the same time, it costs Aud 6,000 per month to live (that is after living off a strict and tight budget).
So far, I have burnt thousands to set up my life in Sydney, including buying a car, furniture, living expenses etc, but the potential of finding a job is non existent I am afraid. If I managed to secure one interview in ten months, I would still have hope.
Anyway, if you still think you should migrate and have family and kids, I would definitely recommend that you choose a good suburb, or a suburb that is mostly inhibited by whit Australians. Please don't be fooled by the idea that you should be living among your fellow countrymen. The whit Australian suburbs, like the one I wad fortunate to live in, enjoys good schools, open grounds, clean roads, and perfect services. Others are under privileged.
My last cut off date s this month February 2014. If I still could not secure an interview, I will surely return to Dubai. I need to give you my most sincere and honest opinion, I do not recommend migrating to Australia to anyone.
Wish you the best
Hi, have you ever find the job in Australia until now? Do you still live in Australia or do you manage to go back to Dubai? I have tried to find a job un Sydney too for 6 months, but cannot secure one single interview also. I had an experience in IT consulting for more than 11 years, but cannot find any job at here due to the lack of local experience, it is that they told me.
DeleteAustralia is a small pond, you are a big fish I think, there is very limited industry in Australia and it sounds like you are totally overqualified.
DeleteThen the criminals running the department of immigration and the SOL MUST stop marketing the country as such with big industries and a booming economy overseas. It reminds me of the Nazi propaganda.
DeleteSlow down, the Nazis built highways all across Germany within five years (!), giving jobs to millions in the process, effectively eliminating unemployment.
DeleteWhat's real unemplyoment in Australia? Maybe 20, 30 per cent? Where are the highways in Australia?
You see, Nazi propaganda was not propaganda at all, they got things done, because they controlled their financial system. Australia is a colony of the international finance, effectively a raped country. Don't insult the Nazis, please. Australians are much worse.
Otherwise you are correct. The way the country is marketed is criminal.
Hi,left Ukraine for Australia. We are here for 5 years now and believe me it is so hard like was never before. If you are coming to Au without a huge bank account it is not a heaven. Still struggle-loneliness,depression,discriminatio
ReplyDeletehi . can you tell me what is going on nowadays
DeleteHi All,
ReplyDeleteWent through the thread. I was willing to start and apply for Australian PR. Please suggest if it is a wise decision to do so.
And if not, which would be a country to migrate looking at all the aspect Job opportunity as per the qualification, Education for child and healthcare.
If it not a wise decision. If you have a job and a stable life, stay where you are. It is rubbish all the lies that this government tells people overseas. Save yourself your funds, i.e. savings and personal assets.
DeleteIf you are in a situation that includes no job, no other income, no family to bring along, then give it a go. You have nothing to lose and all you gain will be experience.
This country, sadly, is milking all newcomers including migrants and, most importantly, international students. It is a country that is highly dependable on the Chinese economy, as well. Australia is not the country that is marketed overseas, trust me. Racism is highly institutionalized. No matter how good you are, no matter how what your knowledge is - to them you are an outsider, and sadly, they have the control.
I never saw the police force being overdressed, for example. Are they going to defend the public or are they going to a fashion show?
Just read at the comments above. Do not be tempted. Regards,
Stay where you are. Everyone seems to think the West is a paradise and its citizens are happy about immigration. No one is, except for (some) capitalists and banksters. Why don't you try and make something out of your own country? What makes you think you can just move to Europe, Australia? No one wants you here/there. I had a tought time in Australia and dislike the country strongly, but I do understand why Aussies are so pissed off about this influx of foreigners into their homeland..
Deleteif you have current skills, and are at the price you should be able to find a job in AU.
ReplyDeleteOnly if you mother or father is friends to the general manager. There is the same level of nepotism you find in Latin America and East Asia.
DeleteCan you help me find one job, then? I have current skills, have an Australian degree (two at the end of this year).
DeleteDegrees are completely worthless, my friend. Sorry to hear you fell for this education scam.....
DeleteNo one will help you in Australia. It is a dog-eat-dog system, and a cut-throat culture.
DeleteIt is the education, scam, indeed. You forgot, it is also a welfare culture.
Deleteits cuttshroat everywhere. Every country in the world, job shortages, unfortunately, you study for skills, then go out and sell an do them
Delete@Roo, what are the "current skills"? If you can't be specific, please don't troll. Seriously, tell me what you mean. This forum, for a change, appears pretty well managed and specific so please, be specific and don't throw around nonsense like "current skills". Disclosure: chemical engineer with 7 years of experience in Australia. Looking forward to your answer.
ReplyDeleteBy Current skills, I mean that your are up to date with current technologies in your field.
DeleteBy at the price, I mean you need to not be asking a high wage.
The higher the salary you want the harder it is to get a position.
Roo,
Deletesmart and succinct comments, especially given my rather assertive note. You seem clever and I can see you mean well so, let me elaborate.
"Being up to date with current technologies in your field" is obviously important, but the problem here is that there are virtually NO INDUSTRIES in Australia. Rarely do I use capital letters but here it really is justified. Heavy machinery - none, car industry - gone or leaving, venture capital - non-existent, electronics - none, high-tech chemicals & pharmacy - very little, space & aeronautics - does not exist, etc. etc. I worked on four continents and can compare - Australia has NOTHING but mining. Education here is NOT MEANT AS A PREPARATION FOR A CAREER, especially for foreigners who are brutally discriminated against, education in Australia IS AN INDUSTRY. They have 1) mining, 2) education and 3) tourism. The problem is that education is not real education and tourism is in massive decline, as the word spreads around and everyone can see how overhyped and overpriced Australia is.
YOUR BEING UP TO DATE WITH CURRENT TECHNOLOGIES IN YOUR FIELD IS USELESS IF THE FIELD DOES NOT EXIST.
We still have mining so, now to your second point:
"By at the price, I mean you need to not be asking a high wage."
There is a huge influx of foreigners, read cheap labour, into Australia and a massive abuse of 457 visas. Everywhere including mining, which is the only REAL industry this country has. The point I am making is that you cannot ask for a higher wage anyway, not as an immigrant in 2014.
Well, if you "need not to be asking a high wage", what is actually the point of coming???
Australia is extremely expensive, comparable with Norway and Switzerland, yet you are indeed not in the situation to ask for a proper wage. What is the point of coming then?
Finally to your last line, "The higher the salary you want the harder it is to get a position."
Absolutely spot-on, you know life. What you may NOT know is that AS A FOREIGNER YOU CANNOT ASK FOR A HIGH SALARY AS THESE ARE ONLY FOR WHITE "BABY-BOOMER" AUSTRALIANS WORKING IN THE GOVERNMENT or top executives in private sectors, predominantly mining-related. You stand no chance, as a foreigner, to get any of these, EVER.
Your debate style is great and its good to see someone interacting so well on a discussion without flaming.
DeleteI agree its not great to come in on a low wage - but that's the price to pay as a foreigner. (its not great) We are all human and equal. Unfortunately we are human with preferences and familiarities and it will affect the hiring (it should not).
I think there are a lot more industries in AU than you think, something keeps it all together right?
Transport, roads, airports, farming, fishing, food industry, malls, supermarket chains,
I happen to know there are some good things in research coming out of Australia.
I do believe its a "corner of the world" country - so its hard to get there. Imports are expensive and its quality of life is driving up costs. i.e. it's a destination for rich people to live in due to its climate and quality of living (for some)
I have lived in many countries where the quality of life is 10 times worse, no infrastructure, wages are a pittance, education is minimal, government is corrupt and so on.
But I don't think all jobs are for whites, - there are many foreign employees in my industry and in good positions - That's why I say - if you are well qualified(current tech) - ie you are bringing something new to the table and are willing to work your way up it should be ok.
Maybe I have been lucky - I have a lot going for me. good niche skills etc.
I still find Sydney exorbitant to live in.
I would appreciate any experiences you have as its a good eye opener for new immigrants to Australia - people should come here with eyes wide open.
I happen to know some very distinguished people who have studied in Australia - From China - who worked part time as a student to get through university and who are now top in their industry.
Maybe they are the standout people.
Thanks for your words Roo, the same goes for you.
DeleteThere are indeed "some" industries, including those you mentioned: Transport, roads, airports, farming, fishing, food industry, malls, supermarket chains. Note, however, that NONE OF THESE ARE HIGH-ADDED VALUE industries. Sure you need transport, roads, malls etc., but these play more of a "supporting role". Compare these with nuclear science, pharmaceuticals, genomics, renewable energy, space & aeronautics, robotics, etc. Renewable industries are a great case in point, take solar energy or wind power. Australia should be world leader in these, yet there is NOTHING. NOTHING.
What has happened in Australia is a massive misallocation of resources - most investments go into housing at the expense of anything else. The conclusion is that, FOR AN IMMIGRANT, CAREER OPTIONS ARE EXTREMELY LIMITED.
Someone above has said: "Australia is not the country that is marketed overseas". Indeed, it is not, and THE LACK OF CAREER PROSPECTS IS SOMETHING THAT POTENTIAL IMMIGRANTS SHOULD BE AWARE OF.
Otherwise your argument is fairly typical:
"I have lived in many countries where the quality of life is 10 times worse, no infrastructure, wages are a pittance, education is minimal, government is corrupt and so on. I agree it's not great to come in on a low wage - but that's the price to pay as a foreigner. (it's not great)".
Of course you are right. For a person coming from poor third world countries, Australia looks great, and such people are happy to be in Australia. For an educated and experienced person from developed regions of the world (I use the term loosely, say most of Europe and America, developed Middle East, and Asia, but there are many more regions "waking up" in today's world), Australia has lost its appeal. THERE ARE MANY MORE OPPORTUNITIES FOR PROFESSIONALS ELSEWHERE.
I feel that people should know this. As you say, there are people willing to work e.g. in supermarkets, just being happy to be able to live in Australia. Fine, good on them. But THERE ARE ALSO PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE THAT HARD WORK, EDUCATION AND GENERAL PROFESSIONALISM WILL LEAD TO A BETTER LIFE OR THE GREAT "AUSTRALIAN DREAM". SORRY, THE DREAM IS GONE NOW.
I come from and currently work in Europe. I used to read a lot of articles in the Australian press (read Murdoch's) about how bad the economy in Europe is. Yet my experience is completely different. In my view, Australia starts to resembles a third world country in many respects: no high-added value industries, extreme nepotism, control of strategic resources by foreign entities (a huge topic in itself), growing disparity between rich and poor, very poor infrastructure, etc.
Anyway, my general advice to "middle-class people" who are "reasonably well-off "in their countries, wherever that be, is this: COME TO AUSTRALIA IF YOU ARE EDUCATED IN A MEDICAL FIELD. IT IS THE ONLY FIELD IN AUSTRALIA THAT PAYS WELL AND DOES NOT SUFFER FROM EXTREME RACISM AND NEPOTISM. IF YOU ARE A MEDICAL DOCTOR, A DENTIST, A MEDICAL SPECIALIST, go ahead.
Anything else, be very careful.
Any questions, feel free to ask. And thanks for your patience :-)
btw I don't troll, this is my own blog....
DeleteIn regards to 'I happen to know some very distinguished people who have studied in Australia - From China - who worked part time as a student to get through university and who are now top in their industry.', you know a select group of Chinese are abusively rotting the Australian economic system nice and well, right? I have witnessed their discriminatory practices when they are in a collective group toward other minorities. Yet, they claim to suffer from discrimination practices from the Australian culture, i.e. the bamboo ceiling. Simple, go to higher level institutions; you will find departments full of Wong, Lee, Zhang, Chan, and so on.
ReplyDeleteI am studying at a higher level institution my 2nd postgrad degree. I thought I had heard all discriminatory comments in a classroom environment until last week when professors are explicitly "Proud" to have the industry of education and have overseas students subsidize their pathetic lifestyles. What I find interesting is that the principles, concepts and standards are simply copied from the American and European models. In itself, the big boys simply leech the aforementioned principles, concepts and standards put together by the American and European counterparts, adapt it to the Australian system and then milk it by "teaching" it to the international students.
There may be one or two industries, say, the Mining, Military / Law Enforcement. Do all citizens enjoy the benefits from such? I am not talking about the economic benefits but rather of the personal, self-realization benefits in a position. The retail industry monopolized by the two big cartels - it is great to hear the American BIG retailers are coming here. These two cartels are scared.
The government and its cartel of agents marketing Australia overseas misleading hundreds of thousands of potential immigrants should be exposed to the public. This blog is a strong channel that describes the realities of immigrating to Australia. Moving to this waste of land has ruined my life, career prospects and reputation. I wish I could do the same to the pathetic individuals who have made me less of a person. Is it worth to mention the cartel that runs the job agencies, Hays, Michael Page, and such? Is it worth to make public the names of the job agents who put their ass on the office chair drinking their warm tea / coffee while many of us lives go through the sewer.
All these criminals will pay one day, it is for sure.
Absolutely spot-on!! I am in the same boat. Not sure about your circumstances, but you need to shake it off and keep marching. You will succeed in the end, trust me, it just will not be in Australia but someplace else.
DeleteAustralia is becoming a third world country, and these people WILL PAY THE ULTIMATE PRICE. May Australians burn in hell.
Brilliant comment. May I ask where you come from?
DeleteTo all these people saying they're having a hard time:
ReplyDeleteI'm a teenager. I've lived in four countries and moved to Australia when I was two. I left when I was about 5/6 and moved back in 2012.
To be honest, I've experienced more racism in my parents' native country than in Australia. I was once even hit by a lady in Vietnam because I spoke only English. I was seven.
Finding a job, as long as you have to appropriate qualifications, is easy--at least that's how it's been like for my parents. As a teenager, it's easy to find a job at fast food stores.
In regards to education, I go through the public school system. And being a person that's been to nine schools, I think I'm qualified to say that it's not that bad at all. The NSW system was patterned off the English system (the HSC is the Aussie equivalent of the A-Levels) and if you really want top-notch education, go to a selective school.
The costs are high living in Australia, yes. India and the Philippines is probably the cheapest countries I've ever lived in. But remember this: the minimum wage in America is $7.25. In Australia, it's $16.87. That means, on a minimum wage in Australia, you can pay for a two bedroom apartment in the Inner-West suburbs of Sydney, a weeks worth of groceries for two people, and still have about $40 to spare. That doesn't include tips, if you work at a restaurant. You have to remember, it's not just price or cost, it's the percentage of your wage/salary you use.
It does get lonely sometimes. But that's what skype is for, right? Call up your family members. I've even watched TV with them through an iPad. Make friends too. You'll find that most Australians aren't actually Anglo anymore. In my school in the Inner-West of Sydney, it's rare that even one student is Anglo-Saxon. We're mostly Asian (East, South, and Middle East) or Mediterranean. Of course, when you go to predominantly "white" suburbs, there's a lot of them, but everywhere else? Nah. And what's with us being mean? This Spanish lady I met in a lift in the QVB told me nothing but good stories about us Aussies. She didn't know her way, and she said that it seemed like every single Aussie was rushing to help her. I find that the Chinese and New Yorkers are much meaner to tourists/new-comers than Australians.
Australia's a really nice place to live. You've just gotta make sure you've got what it takes. They don't hire an excessive number of people here, so you need to be able to handle a heavy work load. Yes, we close early (except on Thursdays), and that really annoy's me, considering that I always did late-night shopping in other countries, but that also means that most people get to spend more time with their families at home, and kids aren't being lost somewhere in Sydney's 12,000+ square kilometres.
We've also got great family rights, meaning you have to receive a penalty for working during Sunday's and public holidays, because you're spending time away from your kids. Sydney also has one of the biggest Urban Park infrastructures in the world, with most suburbs having three or four parks. Hyde Park in the City can even be called Sydney's equivalent to Central Park.
FYI, we've also got good weather. You can pick your weather too: in the "winter," we've got snow in the mountains; rain in Victoria, South Australia, Tasmania, and New South Wales; draught in Northern Queensland and Western Australia, and the Northern Territory; and best of all, amazing year-round beaches in Queensland, where they almost never get tropical typhoons.
There's alway positives and negatives to living in a foreign country, but because everyone seems to be focusing on the negatives, I think someone should point out the positives too.
If you make it, great. If you don't, sorry. But don't blame us.
Grace -
DeleteI am not trying to belittle you, but I cannot see how valid your nice written essay is in this context. You are a teenager, who is taken care of by mom and dad, so I cannot see you going through the massive burdens many immigrants who through, i.e. long-term unemployment, isolation, lack of proper housing, illnesses, and so forth.
It is such a blessing mom and dad can find so easily jobs! Would you mind passing onto them my CV? I have proper qualifications from top-notch Australian institutions, the so-called 'local experience' and am an Australian national as well! Unfortunately my ethnic background is neither European, Indian or Asian.
Look forward to hearing from you.
Gracie, this is an awesome comment, thanks for taking the time to write it. I just noticed a few other debaters here taking you to task. Your opinion is valued.
DeleteTo those getting annoyed that some are against their opinion please note this is a forum where people can express whatever opinion they want to. If Gracie has a good experience and wants to pass it on, or is expressing a grateful attitude that is also great.
Gracie, a nice comment and you seem like a nice person. However, you are on the wrong forum. This one is titled "Why immigrants leave Australia". You are not an immigrant and simply can't understand. More important is the way you defend your country. It is great you stand up for your country, but when you are an Australian adult struggling and at the same time witnessing how hoards of foreigners put everything under stress - transport, hospitals, public safety, employment, well, you would feel very different.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, this forum seems half dead... There are some 300 to 400 000 immigrants (!) coming into Australia every year, where are you people? We want to hear YOUR experience!
Letting them know your experience is basically telling them to change their method. Just let your friends and potential immigrants know, that's better.
DeleteI am British and lived in Sydney from 2003-2013. I am a computer programmer and I found many good jobs,mainly in banking (which I did not have access to in London due to stiffer competition). I was pretty well paid and made quite a few friends. I also found an Australian girlfriend and we were together for many years - that is the key to integrating - if you can, find an Aussie partner. I recommend not hanging around with other expats too - it will only make it harder for you to settle as these people tend to come and go and like to talk about the old country. Most expats don't stick it out for more than 5 years.
ReplyDeleteI found I had more spare cash than in London. And if you know where to shop, and earn a , its not too expensive. You can visit your overseas family once a year and spend a quality few weeks with them- personally when I lived in the same country as them I would only see them at Christmas and for half a dozen few weekends a year - so I was actually spending more time with them after I relocated to Australia.
Why did I leave? Because i found a higher paid job overseas - i'll be back..! Australia is a great place to hang out if you like being outdoors. I also found they will give you a fair go (but I am white anglo-saxon, so experienced no racism).
I believe your story, everything you say sounds reasonable and is probably true. If my experience is anything to go by, the Brits are the only nation that gets a fair treatment in Australia and is respected by Aussies. Other nations are treated as second class citizens.
DeleteAlso, your advice not to hang around with expats too often is wise, the problem is that Aussies don't hang out with foreigners (too much).
I would like to add here I am also planning to leave Australia in the near future. Australia markets themselves well overseas, it attracts people form all over the world to come here and to work hard for the new bright future. Can you imagine if 1000 people come here every year to start a new life, they need food, clothing, house to rent, bills, entertainment, etc. how much money do they get from these people chasing Australian dream? Billions. But how many Australians are actually living Australian dream?
ReplyDeleteLook for yourself, Australia is not just beautiful parks, nice beaches and smiley people, it is definitely more than that. I am from Asia and the place where I come from probably is just a normal human world but it has more than just opportunities.
Your work experiences, educations and qualifications may not even worth a cent because it's rigged. They do not assess you based on these things, they are all just formality, in real world it's just howayadoin. Talking about Aussies in front of Aussies is an offence, even if you are courteous because you come here not to voice your opinion about Australia but to chase your Australian dream.
Don't get trapped here, life here is not like what you see on television. Leave while you can.
Very well said, I second that!
DeleteHow can the Indians / Pakistan scums be stopped from rotting the system. I was on holidays in South America and was so glad such creatures don't live there. Parasites. Bash them all.
ReplyDeleteWhat's wrong with you?
DeleteI am simply using my freedom of speech. Just go and do further research so you learn how people of such background and in high positions, say, banking, give loan to their own so later on they run away from the country with full pockets.
DeleteThat pretty much covers everyone... Are you saying only these people are dishonest?
DeleteIt does cover pretty much everyone, agreed. I, yet, wait one day to see them create rather than leeching and destroying, i.e. creating good art, good educational institutions, or even put the men in the moon!
DeleteNow -- the issue goes even further if we add the element of "refugees". I am somewhere other than Australia and miss Australia but I sad to see that Australian product prices where I am are even cheaper (and genuine items).
No place where to run and hide these days.
Sadly, Anonymous is right. I recently spent some time in Poland. You really can feel the country belongs to the Poles, and is not being invaded by Indians and Pakistanis. Poland feels like paradise compared to Sydney or Melbourne (and you don't freeze in Polish houses even when there is minus 10 degrees outside, as opposed to Australia...).
ReplyDeleteI am not sure people quite grasp what has been happening in Australia. This country is being transformed beyond recognition, and within a generation will be unrecognizable. Some parts of the country has changed irreversibly already, and the whole "Australia", as we understand it, will disapear within one generation. Sad, sad, sad, just sad.
SINCE WHEN IS THIS BLOG AN ADVERTISING BOARD?
ReplyDeleteThis ad would not normally upset me so much, but I have personal experience with this scum - getting fees from foreigners, promising work, but in the end delivering rubish - must ask a moderator - PLEASE REMOVE THEM.
No one will help you in Australia, you will only pay, pay, pay, so that australian baby-boomers can have more of their investment properties. Fuck them.
Hi,
Deletecould you possibly tell us about your experience? Was it a scam?
cheers
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ReplyDeleteBeen here 10 years and will be leaving within the next 12 months. I find the thought of staying here forever very depressing and I feel like I'm missing out on real life somewhere else in the real world and that every concept/service/product/event/etc is just a lousy copy of something out of UK/Europe i.e. there is no original cutting edge thinking. Coming from Europe, I find the underlying problem with Australia is that it feels like an incomplete country that lacks a soul. Incomplete in that the lack of history creates a shallow existence for the locals who seem to only focus on material new stuff. This in turn creates individuals that, to me, are like cardboard cut outs of real people - they lack a fully developed personality and their goals are very simplistic and materialistic. If you have personality here, you will intimidate the locals during conversation - quite easy to spot as their eyes glaze over. They think character means adopting some over animated wooden caricature of the nation’s expectations of, for example, a footballer, or slapstick comedian, shock jock, tough guy, news reporter, intellectual and so on i.e. lots of people with the same wooden personality. You only need to look at the tv personalities to confirm it – they’re second rate. People who love Australia are usually thick skinned, materialistic, lack good taste, don’t appreciate culture/the arts/history/architecture or have come from a lower socio economic background in their home country which they resent (chip on shoulder type). The blind nationalism and ignorant “aus is best” mentality is also intolerable as is the nanny state approach to everything which the locals just seem to accept.
ReplyDeleteHallo Anonymous,
Deletethis is one of the best descriptions of key features of the Australian psyche I have ever read. And let me add that, as someone who spent ten years Down Under, I read quite a few (to make sure I was not crazy, before finally moving back to civilization).
I must admit, the culture here does seem very insular, very old fashioned and macho.
DeleteAlso honest is not a given you have to force it.
Way behind the UK in terms of services and law
Absolutely!
DeleteAs an American who recently tested out the skilled migrant visa route, I was given a PR visa for Australia. Many posts on here indicate a lack of homework done by the prospective immigrant and they have suffered for it. What i mean by a lack of homework is that you need to observe that Australia has a very small population compared to many European countries or the USA ( (85 million in Germany, 65 million in the UK, 310 million US). Hence, it is bound to have a much smaller market and less jobs. The local population would have become very insecure when many skilled immigrants started coming in and so they would have started posting the "lack of local experience" rejection notices more often. You would see that almost every European country has little to no immigrant visas being offered. Even my country (an immigrant nation) has it closed down largely. However, Australia seems to keep it open (making some money off of visa fees perhaps). But the fact that you got offered a PR visa does NOT mean that the door's wide open. As an immigrant you have to see that this does not mean that there are jobs wide open for anyone who was offered a visa. For instance, I have been looking for a position in Australia for a few months while I am comfortably keeping my job in my home country. I am not dumb enough to quit my job and move out to Australia, burn off my savings (things cost as much as most expensive cities in California there), and hope and pray that I will get a job soon. No Sir!! I will not get so desperate and have my desperation shine through at a job interview. Trust me, i have been unemployed in my own country for upto 9 months to a year and the desperation level rises, and this doesn't tend to work in your favor at an interview. I intend to play it cool and lets say i get an offer, I will consider it to be an adventure that I get to live in a different country and enjoy a similar lifestyle (more or less). But please guys, don't move your kids (put them through hell), quit your job and burn your savings hoping to find another miraculous job quickly over there. If i can't find a job from my home country, ok lets say i just lost about 3 grand for a visa. That's just fine, considering that they offer a PR visa which comes with free health benefits and so on. There are also many british and US companies who operate there. So i might try to play it with a US company over there. You may also try to see if you can get in with a company from your home country that operates there. There may be other ways to skin the cat. Anyways, play it cool my friends, play it cool. Immigration and trying to make it big in a different country is NEVER a piece of cake. Its hard enough in your own home country!!
ReplyDeleteI have now lived with my family in VIC for the past decade. I have been feeling more and more unhappy about living in AUS recently, and have begun to doubt myself. I can't say any one thing has made me unhappy, probably a whole lot of small things? My children have grown up here and would probably be quite happy to stay on. My husband has a good job and I had a job until a year ago which I resigned from. I just have never been that happy here. I felt I had to let the kids finish school before doing anything about my unhappiness. I don't miss family as I don't really have any family other than my immediate family. This all said I am still not happy here and wonder if I'll be making a really big mistake my moving home to RSA? Any thoughts please
ReplyDeleteIts hard to say as you are probably missing friends and familiar things
ReplyDeleteWhy not do a three month thing in SA?
See if it really helps
your kids will hate SA as they have no connection there (not sure how old they are)
You might find its not what you want anyway,
I hope you get clarity/happiness somehow :)
try a one to three month stint.
your welcome, hope you find that happyness
DeleteDear readers
ReplyDeleteI believe that I hold the world record in quitting Australia. I'm a skilled migrant with PR, believe it or not, it took me 5 months only to realize that I have made the dumbest move in my life by jumping blindly with my family to Aussie land.
I came probably from the worst country in the world, but still an oil rich middle eastern one.
The main reason for immigration is the unstable security situation and seeking better education for my kids, I wasn't after big saliry or any Australian dream.
As for kids education the dream came true.
But for me I have to say that I went through the most horrible nightmares in my life during my last three months there.
I really need an explanation, as a skilled migrant with state nominated visa I was foolishly confident that my skill is needed in SA.
After a horrible visa application process I was qualified by Engineers Australia as an Engineering technician skill level 2 with advanced diploma.
They also tagged me with an ANZSCO code: Blah blah blah.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, isn't that suppose to mean that I have some qualification to be proud of?
Not to long after starting applying for a job I realized that my qualification is worthless and the only job that l can POSSIBLY get is a physically powered one, even this was hard to get in a CALM state like SA.
But I think that I made a bit of smart OR MAYBE THE DUMBEST move by keeping a life boat that can take me back to my missed up country with minimal loses.
The thing that I believe will suffer from is the beautiful memories in my kids minds about the school that I enrolled them in giving that I will take them back to the horrible schools in my country, but at least I can support their living there.
I writing to warn prospected immigrants to do their homework well AS OUR SMART AMERICAN FRIEND SAID before landing there. Give it a try first then bring everything when it's convenient for you, as you will be surprised by the cost of living and job opportunities, be sure of that dear friends.
As for the debate about the Aussie personality, it's like everywhere, some are good, some are not, but they mostly good
Anyway, as an immigrant, don't worry about the Aussie personality as you wan't have the chance to go in deep discussions with any.
Another thing, test your self for homesickness resistance if you're a first time immigrant, homesickness almost killed me there.
Good luck to all.
lot of true words here. homesickness is a huge underestimated issue.
ReplyDeleteAlso jobs are hotly contested and Australia is not in a boom atm.
Salaries are not high compared to the cost of living, unless you are dodging tax or something.
I have read so much and honestly, I count myself lucky to have come across this forum.
ReplyDeleteI am considering migrating to Aussie from Africa where I earn a very decent wage with comfortable living condition by all standard. I only want to give the give my children a better education in Aussie. and going by the comments so far, i really have to do a rethink and stop wasting my money bcos i have gone far and only needs to submit my EOI.
I thank everyone for their honest comments.
Australia is unique and good, but do plenty of research before embarking in such journey. It is such a great country and I love it, but you have to ask yourself whether you will be able to enjoy of such benefits. The system in itself will put you at the back of the very line. If you have a very decent wage in Africa with comfortable living conditions, I would not give up what you have earned.
DeleteIf you have some spare savings and can try it for a few months before bringing all your family, that would be ideal. You wouldn't want to burn all yours savings and end up really nowhere.
Take care.
This is/turned out to be a surprisingly useful forum (I authored a couple of comments above) and maybe it deserves a separate page or something more visible that builds on this page.
DeleteEven if this helps just one person, it has done an amazing job.
And indeed, if you have a stable career/life overseas, DO NOT THINK FOR A SECOND about leaving it all behind. This is as honest a piece of advise as you can get from a stranger. Australia is seriously fucked up now...
Hello all,
ReplyDeleteI am a single Australian female who is tertiary educated and living in poverty. I live in Sydney and as a single income spend $500 per WEEK on rent (one bedroom - no where near a beach) living 30 minutes from the city. My full time salary equates to $850 per week (around $52,000 per year). After paying for public transport, minimal groceries and a mobile phone, I have zero money left for a social life, hair dresser, dentist or even a car. I can barely pay my electricity bill!!! How am I ever supposed to afford a house? The average Sydney house has just topped the 1 million dollar mark. I would need a minimum deposit of $100,000 AUD plus a whole lot of other fees, and no bank would lend me $900,000 AUD as a mortgage. I have spent the past 22 years working full time just for the privelidge of having a full time job. When I want to go overseas I need to work weekends as well in a 2nd job (usually in a cafe or retail store).
This has been do-able until now, but due to circumstances my family, will not have any inheritance to leave me and I cannot foresee myself spending the next 40 years being able to work as intensely just to keep a roof over my head. I know there is a lot of money in Australia, but there is also a HUGE disparity between the rich and the working class. 40 years ago the working class could afford to save for a house, now they are living hand to mouth with no hope for the future. I have been desperately researching ways to leave the "lucky country" as my future here does not look very promising at all. P.S. The government benefits here are $250 per week. This is only one quarter of the average wage in Australia and I promise you, you will be sharing (renting) bedrooms with strangers for the rest of your life if you think that is enough to live on in Sydney. Sometimes having our basic human needs met (like shelter and food) is a higher priority than beaches and hot sunny weather. It pains me to say it but Australia is only a lucky country if you a very, very wealthy.
Very well said, Di. Only fools come to Australia, even Aussies want out! To me, there is no future in Australia any more.
DeleteAustralia is finished. It is becoming a third world hellhole much faster than expected.
ReplyDeleteSoon there is going to be a new blog titled "Why do white Australians leave the country ?"
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ReplyDeleteHi,
ReplyDeleteMy husband and I migrated to Australia last year and my husband has over 5 years experience in the IT / Programming field, Till now he hasn't got any job. Every time he submits his resume or goes to an interview they tell him that he doesn't have local experience. Same case applies for me.
We are struggling to pay rent, electricity bills as everything is sooo expensive and overpriced:(
We are feeling very lonely, depressed and are worrying about our future.We regret coming here in the first place
I left Australia in 2010 and reside in South America. I lived and worked there for 28 years previous to this. Ileft because of the nanny state where basically everything is verboten and because life in South America is much more pleasant and free. Cheers
ReplyDeleteHi,
ReplyDeleteMy husband and I and 2 our kids came to Australia from Europe as skilled migrants 3 months ago. We wanted to move to Australia due to economic crisis in my home country although we were earning enough money there.
We're hoping to find better life in Australia. Unfortunatelly, we were wrong.
I have not been able to find a job so far because I do not have any local experience. My husband has been lucky enough to get the job as a carpet layer in a company that is owned by his friends. But his salary is not enough ($22/hour) to sustain the family of 4 persons and the rent therefore we continue to spend our savings. I'm just horrified what will happen when the money is gone.
So I'm thinking about moving back home but my husband wants to stay for a while and see how it goes.
Honestly, I think that moving here was the biggest mistake in my life because we were better off in my own country. I feel miserable and depressed here. I just want to go back home.
My wife and moved to Australia from South Africa. We lasted 6 months and thankfully realised that this was not for us. Economic bubble waiting to pop. Everything just too expensive. You look at the price of a house and you must be kidding at the price. We found it expensive, hot and boring. Luckily we did not waste our savings. We moved to a lovely village in the UK and we were treated like honoured guests. People of Britannia, you guys rock. We both got good jobs and were made to feel part of the team. We worked hard and bought a stunning house. We paid into the National Insurance. After 7 years My mother in South Africa fell ill so we decided to return. We have been back now 12 years. We carried on paying into the NI and have 8 years of payments to go. My two kids finished their schooling here in South Africa. My daughter will qualify as a doctor this year and my son has just started his law degree. We all have British passports. We are still friends with the people we met in the UK after all these years. This is the difference between the UK and Australia. My advise don't bother with Australia or New Zealand the good days there are over. They make money out of desperate immigrants, don't be fooled. On the other hand I cannot say enough about the people of the UK.
ReplyDeleteI just wanted to say something regarding the comments about Aussies being racist. I don't really think they are. I'm white, Canadian, and a native English speaker. I came to Australia on a working holiday back in 2013, and MAN did I ever have a hard time finding work.
ReplyDeleteMy first thought was to check temp agencies, as a way of getting some local experience and getting my feet wet being employed here. Nope, most agencies actually advertised that if you weren't a citizen or PR, then they wouldn't hire you, not even for a 2-week position. I had 2 years of office admin experience, and 2 years of experience as a barista, and couldn't find work in either type of position - in fact, one person hiring at a cafe ho-hummed and said "hmm, ONLY 2 years?" and 2 other places actually told me very rudely that they had a stack of resumes *this big* and if I wasn't something pretty darn special, I could just forget about it (I'm not even really paraphrasing much either). I did find a little work but it never lasted long - one job was as a street fundraiser, a job I had done before, but I was amazed by the "every man for himself" attitude and between that and the too-low-to-live-on pay, I just quit. One job was at a cafe and another was as a high school English tutor, and in both, the employers figured that because I was a foreigner, I was also too inexperienced to know when they were abusing me (one tried to pay me in cash under the table and still take taxes off my wages, and another kept paying me the same hourly wage while she added more and more students to my time slot... I'm not an idiot, thank you ver much).
So I would absolutely say it's not a race issue, since in terms of ethnic and cultural background, I should have been the perfect foreign applicant - white, from a Western culture, native English, university educated, with a reasonable amount of experience..... and I could barely even find temporary work, much less work that actually paid anything decent or in line with my professional credentials or experience.
On a side note, for me, the hardest thing since moving here properly (husband is Aussie and was offered a job here after graduating) is the poor housing standards and slumlord attitude of the landlords and rental agents. I've had my share of struggles (like isolation, not fitting in, people treating homesickness as an insult and bluntly telling me to get over it, expensive housing, etc) but I know that if we had moved virtually anywhere else, even within Canada, we'd have had some of these problems too - I'd be far from family, need to make new friends, and might even see some of the expensiveness, if we had gone to Vancouver or Toronto. But at least in those places, sure I would be paying through the nose, but I'd get a place with insulation, flyscreens to keep the bugs out, with a very low chance of having issues with cockroach infestations or mould - and certainly we wouldn't have to hound the agents or threaten legal action to have simple repairs carried out. It's pretty obscene. And even though it's only 10 degrees in the winter (vs -20 or so where I'm from), because there's no insulation, no weather-proofing, and power is too expensive to use a small heater very often, you end up feeling like you'll never be warm again..... I think I can say pretty confidently that the single biggest drag on my ability to adapt and feel content is the housing.